Don't Coast on Your Momentum

Most leaders know how to fight through a crisis. Almost nobody's ready for the moment things start working.

That's where Jonathan finds himself. Five years into running the Seymour Center, the survival years behind him. Funding's solid. The team's humming. He walks the halls, thinks "we're good," and tells me that stability feels strange. Almost uncomfortable. Like a problem he doesn't have the muscle for yet.

I get it. The instinct, once you've arrived, is to protect what's working. Slip into business-as-usual mode. Play the safe, incremental game.

But here's what I keep seeing after 15 years: that's exactly how good organizations stall out. The bold, experimental swings are what built the momentum in the first place, and they're the first thing leaders quietly retire the moment things feel stable.

So the real discipline is refusing to coast. Building from a place of stability instead of scarcity, while you still have the calm to think clearly.

The question I'd put to any leader who's finally hit their stride: are you using this moment to make your boldest move yet, or just trying to hold onto the one you already made?
 

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:40] Five years in, and everything's finally working 
[00:01:35] Momentum is a different kind of problem 
[00:04:45] Two buckets: funding and visibility 
[00:07:30] Imagining the next level of the Seymour Center 
[00:10:45] Three viable paths, one hard choice 
[00:11:30] Why not go all in on all of them? 
[00:16:40] Play it safe, or make the bold bet? 
[00:19:05] Build from stability, not scarcity 
[00:20:10] The trap of business as usual 
[00:23:05] Owning your wins in front of funders 
[00:24:00] Why funders actually decide on vibes 
[00:26:55] Don't skip the celebration 
[00:29:10] What got you here won't get you there 
[00:30:30] Better choices come from a place of calm

Notable Quotes:

[00:02:55]: "There's this moment recently where I was like, I've never felt this before. What do I do with this? It feels like momentum." Jonathan Hicken

[00:19:15]: "How do I make sure not to lose the opportunity to build from a place of stability instead of scarcity? That's fundamentally the question here." Eric Ressler 

[00:19:35]: "It's a little strange, walking through the halls and being like, we're good. This is working. That's a strange feeling." Jonathan Hicken 

[00:20:35]: "The trap would be, okay, it's working now, we just move into business-as-usual mode. That's how orgs stall out a lot of times." Eric Ressler 

[00:28:55]: "Keep the foot on the gas, and lean into what I know has worked — which has been big, creative, different, bold swings." Jonathan Hicken 

[00:29:10]: "What got you here may not be what gets you to the next level. So you have to be open to that too." Eric Ressler 

Resources & Links:

• Seymour Marine Discovery Center — Jonathan's organization; the "collaborative center for coastal resilience" discussed throughout, including the headline Blue Whale Skeleton project mentioned at [00:02:35]
• Julie Packard — founding Executive Director of the Monterey Bay Aquarium and guest of the Seymour Center's first live podcast, referenced at [00:12:20]
• Live podcast episode with Julie Packard — mentioned at [00:12:20]
• Cosmic (Design by Cosmic) — Eric's creative agency, referenced in the mid-roll and throughout
• Settlers of Catan — board game referenced at [00:17:05] in the game-theory analogy

P.S. — Struggling to align your message with your mission? We help social impact leaders like you build trust-building brands through authentic storytelling, thoughtful design, and digital strategy that works. Let's talk about your goals »

Full Transcript:

Jonathan Hicken [00:00:45]: Eric, I find myself in this strange and beautiful and unexpected place — five years into my executive directorship at the Seymour Center. And everything's working. We've got some momentum, and I've been wrestling with what to do with this momentum. And I imagine we've got listeners who are in similar positions.

Eric Ressler [00:01:20]: Right. You've made some really good choices, you've gotten some good funding, you're humming. And there's this question we all ask: how do I take best advantage of this moment? I love this, man. First of all, clearly all of our listeners are similarly positioned, because they take our advice every day and they're just humming along, making more money than they ever thought they would, making their missions happen. I joke, but I do think we spend a lot of time thinking about how to solve problems in this space, and this is a different flavor of problem — which is, we've arrived. We've hit our mission goals, we've hit a stride, we've got some momentum. There's still work to do. There's still problems, of course. But how do we take that momentum and best leverage it for future growth? That's what you're saying.

Jonathan Hicken [00:01:55]: That's exactly right. So let me set the stage for the Seymour Center — and then I want some of your coaching. I want you to help me think this through. Be careful what you wish for, man. Abridged history: 2021, five years ago, I start. More centers still closed due to the pandemic. A lot of the early years were just rebuild, rebase — get back to business. The middle years were really about establishing this new vision of becoming, though we didn't articulate it at the time, a collaborative center for coastal resilience. The last couple of years have been about testing and trying and prototyping and getting a few really big projects off the ground — including some great new exhibits, the podcast, and this headline Blue Whale Skeleton project. All of these things have happened and are going really well. Visitation's up, funding's in a good position. The team is solid. And there's this moment recently where I was like, I've never felt this before. What do I do with this? It feels like momentum. And truly, I've been thinking about how to take advantage of it.

Eric Ressler [00:03:15]: Awesome, man. Well, first of all — congrats.

Jonathan Hicken [00:03:15]: Thank you.

Eric Ressler [00:03:15]: It's an awesome position to be in, and a well-deserved one. Let me just ask: what's on your plate? What ideas are in the hopper, where you're like, we've arrived here, there's still work to do on these things, but generally progress is being made? Because what I'm also hearing is that although you're highly involved in a lot of these things, your teams running them are on track. So now you kind of need to tap the next thing.

Jonathan Hicken [00:03:45]: That's exactly right. And again, the team is really incredible. There's a lot of our work that doesn't require me at all, which is a very privileged place to be in. And we have this case for support, which we did with Cosmic. So we have a couple of the next big things lined up. And yet the question still remains: where do I put my time? The place I immediately go is fundraising. Now we've got demonstration — proof of the capacity and ability to execute on big things. So how do I leverage that to bring in more money for the next big thing? That's the obvious one.

Eric Ressler [00:04:30]: Of course. But you also need something to fundraise toward. I'm not saying you're done, or that there aren't plenty of things to fund that just need general operating support. But you also need a compelling story about who you're becoming. And I think you're still not done stepping into the role that you've set up for yourself, from an identity perspective. Would you agree?

Jonathan Hicken [00:04:50]: I agree. So I've been thinking about my time lately in two buckets: funding and visibility. What are the two things that I can uniquely do for this organization that nobody else on my team either can or has the time to do? Funding and visibility are the two things that fall into that bucket. And under visibility, I'd also think about reputation and the ecosystem and all of that.

Eric Ressler [00:05:25]: Okay. So fundraising and visibility are your two main priorities as executive director. Where do you think there's still room to grow in both of those — personally, and also in terms of where you spend your energy and time?

Jonathan Hicken [00:05:35]: On the fundraising side, I think we've established enough credibility that we could go after some more aggressive gifts for some more speculative projects. What I mean is, I've got this vision for a new educational experience for high school students, which we don't have right now, which would fill a very important gap in the community. And I think we've built the credibility to approach a funder and say, hey, help us pilot this for three years. Three years ago, without the momentum we have now, that would have been a much more difficult conversation.

Eric Ressler [00:06:15]: Right, right, right. And then what about on the visibility side?

Jonathan Hicken [00:06:20]: I've known for years that visibility for the Seymour Center has been a weakness. Marketing, brand awareness. Even the actual space — for listeners who aren't in Santa Cruz, we're on the cusp of the edge of town. You're not going to pass it. You're definitely not passing it by mistake. No, this is not a place you're just going to stumble upon. You have to deliberately choose to come here.

Eric Ressler [00:06:40]:  Which is part of its appeal. It's like a little crown jewel on that side of town. 

Jonathan Hicken [00:06:45]: Gorgeous setting. People come here for the setting a lot of the time. And yet visibility — that's a problem. For museums or science centers located in their downtowns, they get a lot of happenstance traffic. Right. We're a destination, so that doesn't happen. We've got a couple of core programs that are well known within specific circles — field trips for local schools, well known in that circle. But otherwise, generally, it's like, oh, I think I've heard of that. My belief is that with more visibility we could strengthen the business and advance impact.

Eric Ressler [00:07:30]: In situations like this, I find it helpful to go into more of an imaginative state, versus a pragmatic, constraints-based mode of thinking — which is important too. But let's imagine for a second you break into the next category or level, whatever word you want to use. How would you describe that next level, from a fundraising standpoint and from a visibility standpoint? Let's take each. What would that look like for you?

Jonathan Hicken [00:08:00]: On the fundraising side, it would be major transformations of the physical space and major new programmatic development — new and sustainable education programs, and the funding to do those things.

Eric Ressler [00:08:15]: But structurally, on the fundraising side, are we talking about multi-year general operating grants, or major, almost capital-campaign-style fundraising, or a mix of those two?

Jonathan Hicken [00:08:25]: Probably a mix of those two.

Eric Ressler [00:08:25]: And what about on the visibility side?

Jonathan Hicken [00:08:25]: On the visibility side, what success looks like is more visitorship. Because with more visitorship, that strengthens the economic side of things — ticket sales, memberships, and so on. That's going to provide a certain level of earned income that could sustain the operational level, but it also helps us deliver on this greater idea for impact that we have, which is to help this community become more environmentally resilient to a changing ocean and planet.

Eric Ressler [00:09:05]: Right. And what's in your way right now on both of those, in your mind?

Jonathan Hicken [00:09:05]: On the fundraising side, it's credibility, which I think we're earning. So, progress there. And I think it's a better brand story and brand presence. Those two things are really true. And I think we've improved on those things, partly due to Cosmic's help in the last couple of years.

Eric Ressler [00:09:35]: I'd put way more credit in your plate than ours on that, frankly. We've helped with some of the strategy behind the execution, and you've taken those ideas and run with them and done a really good job there.

Eric Ressler [00:09:45]: And what's striking me is that these two categories are really self-reinforcing.

Jonathan Hicken [00:09:50]: Oh, for sure.

Eric Ressler [00:09:50]: Which is not a coincidence. A lot of the things that are going to be better for visibility are going to be better for fundraising too, and vice versa. So I guess what I'm trying to understand is — and I'm getting a little more clarity now — I can't taste what the future looks like for the Seymour Center in your description. I can't smell it. It doesn't feel tangible enough for me. And maybe that's because it's still emerging. You're in this imaginative state where it's not fully penciled out yet. You have some ideas around what it might be, but do you have more detail in your brain? Do you have a particular project in mind? Do I have a particular... I really wish our funding were 60% earned revenue instead of only 40% — or, I get the gist of it, but what does it really look like for you?

Jonathan Hicken [00:10:40]: Good. I see where we're going with this. Bringing it back to: how do we make the most of momentum? Part of what I've been struggling with is that I actually have a couple of options. A couple of things I could be doing.

Eric Ressler [00:10:55]: So you see multiple paths.

Jonathan Hicken [00:10:55]: I see multiple paths. One of the themes for the team this year is enhancing the gathering space. So one angle is go all out on fundraising for physical improvements to the space. Another is to go all out on building out this new educational program. Another would be to go all out on Seymour Studios and the media play. All three of these paths are viable. And one of my fundamental questions is: how do I ascertain which one is the best to go after?

Eric Ressler [00:11:30]: Counter question — why choose just one? 

Jonathan Hicken [00:11:30]: It's kind of like, as the great Ron Swanson from Parks and Recreation once said, never half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing.

Eric Ressler [00:11:45]: Yeah, it's a strategy. I'm not necessarily saying it's wrong, but the reason I ask is because it's similar to the fundraising-versus-visibility thing. I see how all of those things might reinforce each other. Especially the gathering and the media side — especially if visibility is a big element to it, putting a bunch of time and effort into making the space more badass. But no one comes. Not a good use of time. And you said visitation's up, so obviously you're already working on that. But I can see how — I think back to something you recently did, which I thought was really cool. The first, and I think so far only, live podcast, with Julie Packard at the Seymour Center, in the room. We got to set it up with a beautiful ocean background. And it was incredible. We had like 8,000 people there. Like that, right? And to me, we've talked about this on the show before: when we look at the strengths that the Seymour Center has to offer, undeniably one of those strengths is the physical space. That is an asset that many orgs would be so thrilled to have. And you've done a really good job of utilizing that. And also a really good job of not just over-indexing on, well, it's a museum, come to the museum, see the exhibits, and that's the whole Seymour Center brand. Obviously it's so much more than that. And you're building a lot on that foundation. But if you're becoming a center for coastal resilience, and you need to educate and influence people, and you're doing that digitally — I also think we're in a time where in-person gathering is becoming... we're rediscovering how important that was in our lives. 

Jonathan Hicken [00:13:25]: So what I'm hearing you say is there's a fourth option on the table, which is to create more opportunities for gathering, on top of making the gathering place even cooler.

Eric Ressler [00:13:35]: Yeah. And I think you kind of have to do both. Because as much as the space is really cool already, I can imagine a version — especially if we're in this imaginative state — where there's more of that, where it feels like more than just an exhibit museum. Which it already does, don't get me wrong. In the early days you were talking about bringing coffee carts here, and food that's still coming.

Jonathan Hicken [00:13:55]: We do have food now, but we don't have the coffee cart yet. So let's zoom this out — because I could talk about the Seymour Center for ages, but what I want to extract here is: what is the exercise we're doing to help an executive director, aka me, make sense of what to do with this momentum? What we're doing naturally is talking about high-impact work. And high-impact work in this case has already been somewhat defined by doing this work. We did this work already. We made the case for support. We know what our core initiatives are. So the main takeaway I'm hearing is: Jonathan, don't overthink this. You've got the path. Just go do it now.

Eric Ressler [00:14:50]: Hey friends. Real quick before we continue today's episode — I'm Eric Ressler, founder and creative director at Cosmic. Cosmic is a creative agency purpose-built for nonprofits and mission-driven organizations. For the last 15 years, we've helped leaders like you nail your impact story and sharpen your strategy. But we're not here to just leave you with a fancy slide deck and a pat on the back. We roll up our sleeves and help you bring our ideas to life through campaigns, creative, and digital experiences. Our work together helps you earn trust, connect deeply with your supporters, and grow your fundraising and your impact. If you value the thinking we share here and want it applied to your biggest challenges, let's talk at Design by Cosmic. All right — back to today's conversation.

Eric Ressler [00:15:40]: Okay, I don't know if this is going to track, but I'm going to give it a shot. I've been thinking a lot about strategy and what that word actually means. We've done a lot of episodes about that recently, and I've thought about this new — call it a metaphor, or a mental model for strategy — which is: if you think about it like a game, almost like game theory of strategy, where there's a certain set of rules and constraints within any game. You have those two, in real life or in the center, and there is a goal. You want to win. What does winning look like for the Seymour Center? That's essentially your vision, your impact statement, your theory of change. So, given all that's true, how are you going to best play the game? What moves are you actually going to make? Are you going to take the safe moves? That's a strategy — you're going the tortoise way, where you're keeping that momentum and every year incrementally improving. Or are you going to make a big, bold bet that could cost you the game, or could take you to the finish line and deliver that impact more quickly? I don't know if that's helpful for listeners, but to me, when we think about strategy, you think about it a lot in terms of strategic planning, or decks or docs that you share with your team. But at the end of the day, it's really just the choices that you make to try and win the game.

Jonathan Hicken [00:17:05]: I love that. That metaphor works really well for me. And I'm thinking of Settlers of Catan here. I do load up on wool like nobody wants wool. Everyone's got too much sheep, man. So we have this other factor, which is this new expanse I've mentioned in another episode — it's right there. And I need to figure out how to right-size that new expense. I look ahead and I'm like, I don't think playing the tortoise game here is going to solve that problem.

Eric Ressler [00:17:40]: If you just start to graph it out year over year, that expense doesn't go away.

Jonathan Hicken [00:17:45]: And so even as we're talking this through — this is kind of a moment of, okay, each of those opportunities I just laid out have probably differing revenue potentials. And I know I need to solve this expense problem. So really — should the episode be over? Am I just like, I've got to work on the one that's going to bring in the most money? 

Eric Ressler [00:18:00]: It reminds me of, pay down your debts before you make new investments. Not nearly as fun, but probably the responsible choice. But I don't know — I'm going to push back on that a little bit. because, you need to have a solution to this new revenue reality that you find yourself in unexpectedly. But is the safe way to stay on track the way to do that? Or is that where you need to get creative, to create a whole new source of revenue, or to elevate? Because I respect the strategic clarity that you have already. And what I'm hearing you wrestle with is: where do I now put my energy and time investment to spearhead the things I have in motion? But they're all through the lens of science solution — Santa Cruz — and through your mission, and your understanding of who you are and who you're becoming. So you've done that, a lot of that foundational work. So what I'm hearing you say is: okay, now what? Now, how do I take that momentum? It's working. And how do I make sure not to lose the opportunity to build from a place of stability instead of scarcity?

Jonathan Hicken [00:19:20]: That's it. That's fundamentally the question here. And I find myself wrestling, because I'm getting almost a little antsy. Where it's a little strange, walking through the halls and being like, we're good. This is working. That's a strange feeling. And also it feels like a big choice to make. It feels like a bit of a burden to say, I could develop this, or that, or maybe a little bit of all of them. And I've got to make the right choice here. 

Eric Ressler [00:20:05]: So here's what I'm reflecting on. Hearing you say that — how did you get there? You got there not by doing all the things that were best practices or standard or expected, or based on the old perception of the Seymour Center as an entity. You did it by thinking bigger, taking risks, being experimental, learning about what worked, listening deeply with the community. So to me, you got there not by business as usual. So the trap would be: okay, it's working now, we just move into business-as-usual mode. That's how orgs stall out a lot of times. So I would — obviously with intention and deep thought and listening — think about how do I now take what's working and elevate it. So we've got some visibility through the pod and through some of these things. What's the next level of that look like? And always checking that against: does that deliver more impact for the people that I care about, or is that just not a good use of my time? And then from the fundraising side, when you do those other parts well, opportunities for fundraising naturally present themselves. Because you've got a new big project you want to fund, or because you've got something you're just so excited about — you can't help but have that excitement influence other people who are aligned with your mission, your values. So you can solve all those problems at once. 

Jonathan Hicken [00:21:35]: One thing that comes to mind, which all of us executive directors have to think about, is making sure that what we're personally motivated by and what's best for the organization are in alignment.

Eric Ressler [00:21:50]: Exactly. And that's why I put that little clause: check back on your impact. Because at some level, every decision needs to be defendable against your goals for impact. And that's really the distinction between a true social impact organization and an org that's claiming that — and it's basically just lip service.

Jonathan Hicken [00:22:10]: When it comes to funding, this might actually be a moment where the sector — and I'm going to over-generalize here — the sector might find itself challenged. And what I mean is, we are not unique in the sense that we're doing something that's working and we've gotten to a good place. That happens for a lot of us. And also, in the sector, we're collaborative. We often avoid taking full responsibility for really great results. We want to share in that win, share in that success. Maybe humility starts to factor in. And so do we miss out on these opportunities to leverage that momentum because we're not taking credit? You know what I'm saying? That's where my mind was going. I've got to go in front of a funder and be like, we did that. We owned it. We did that, and we could do it again. And there's a certain level of confidence and boldness that's going to be required of me in order to take advantage of the fundraising opportunity and the momentum right now.

Eric Ressler [00:23:25]: And I think what I'm hearing is that, although you guys in many cases either did do all of that on your own — you at least led that work — but maybe you also did it in partnership with some other orgs.

Jonathan Hicken [00:23:35]: Absolutely. And that was more of a reflection on the sector. Is this something that happens? It's a question to you. 

Eric Ressler [00:23:45]: I see this in a lot of different ways. What I generally see when people are pitching funders and generating a case for support, and we get this feedback — sometimes we need more evidence, we need more stats, we need more impact metrics. And I think some of that matters. I think we do need to be levelheaded about this work. It can't be a purely emotional act, and I don't think that stuff matters as much as we all think it does. Because at the end of the day, when you look at how people actually make decisions — even funders who claim to be very evidence-based — highly simplified, it comes down to vibes. I'm just going to say it. Yeah. Relationships, relationships, network. Do they feel it? Can they feel it? Do they resonate with the vision that you've put out, and do they want to be part of making that continue to come to life? At the end of the day, it's really that simple. Now — do they have to feel that you're credible in order to make that choice? Yes. Do you have to have a good reputation? Do you have to be able to defend your credibility? All of that is true. But what you're also saying is, you have to be willing to claim the wins. And I do sometimes see orgs who have trouble doing that. And I do think you have to be careful about how — I've also seen orgs try and claim things where, yo, you were one of the groups that did this, but this group actually led this thing. So I also sometimes see orgs come in and claim ownership beyond what is true and authentic. And luckily I don't see that too often. 

Jonathan Hicken [00:25:25]: And this is not a binary, where you're taking all the credit or you're failing and not taking anything. There is a way to sort of claim your credit in a broader sense.

Eric Ressler [00:25:35]: But I think, to take it back to you — and I hear you're trying to think about this sector-wide too — I think you should be proud of the things that you should be proud of, and you should be good at telling those stories. But I wouldn't over-index on that, because I think what people really want is to be inspired about what they can help you build. So if you can tell a really good story about what that is, who you're becoming, and how you're doing that, and what opportunities people have to come alongside you to make that happen — that's how I would think about it.

Jonathan Hicken [00:26:05]: Yeah. And I realize, for me, on a personal level — what do I do with all of this momentum? I think there's two things that come to mind. One, I wonder if I should have already had the answer to this question before the momentum hit. There's a part of me that wishes, oh, now, if I were a few steps further down the road here, I could take better advantage of this moment. But I didn't. And so here I am. And I've got a couple of good ideas. I know all of these ideas are viable. So really the work that I need to do right now is determine the financial and impact possibility in each of these lanes. Yeah, I mean—

Eric Ressler [00:26:55]: The other thing I'd just say is: don't skip the celebration. Take a moment and be like, we did this — for you, for your team, for the people who have supported you. Because I do think that is actually something we're not very good at, at times, in this sector: celebrating the wins. And this work can be hard. It can be tiresome. People burn out all the time. Not saying that's happening for you all, but part of that is because in the sector, we naturally have a tendency to solve the next problem, get to the next level. And that's good to a degree. And I struggle with this myself too. Don't get me wrong. But I think taking the time to be like, hey, we did that. I even look at some of the stuff that we do today as an agency, and where we are, and it's really easy for me to fall into, oh, this thing's not right, this thing's not right, we are not here. We didn't hit this goal. But also, if you told me 16 years ago I'd be doing what I do today, I'd be like, crazy. I freaking killed it. So my off-the-cuff advice here is: sit with that. Celebrate it. Pat yourself on the back. Do the same for you and your team. And then take advantage of this opportunity that you have to be in this position of stability. And then get back to the imagination table. And to me, that's my favorite table to be at. I think it is for you too. So — hopefully that's helpful.

Jonathan Hicken [00:28:25]: Well, another takeaway here is — a few of the takeaways so far have been: celebrating wins is a big one. Two is, trust myself and trust the work that I've already done, and that there are some great ideas on the table now. Three: don't fall into the trap of not going out a pilot. Because maybe this is an inflection point where some organizations take a wrong turn by not keeping moving. So keep the foot on the gas, and lean into what I know I'm good at and what I know has worked — which has been big, creative, different, bold swings.

Eric Ressler [00:29:10]: Yeah. And I would say one thing that complicates that last takeaway: what got you here may not be what gets you to the next level. So you have to be open to that too. I've noticed that leaders and orgs will get to a certain level, and a strategy got them there. And that worked, and they're like, well, that's our strategy, and we're going to stick to it because we've seen it work — but it's not actually the right strategy for the next level. I don't know if that's true for you at this stage.

Jonathan Hicken [00:29:35]: Well, it is, in the sense that a lot of the first few years have been about establishing the strategy. And the question in front of me right now is not, what's my strategy? The question is, what's my tactic that's actually going to help us execute most quickly and most effectively?

Eric Ressler [00:29:50]: And I'm also hearing: do I try and do many things, or just one thing? Where do you put that allocation of time and energy and resources? Which can be different for everyone.

Jonathan Hicken [00:30:00]: Yeah. That's not a sweeping generalization there. So for those leaders who find themselves in this position with momentum — what advice would you give them to take the most advantage of it? 

Eric Ressler [00:30:15]: To me, if you're in a position of stability, you could also start to think about: now we can start to make investments — not necessarily even financial investments. Put everything on the table. Where are we strong? Where are we weak? And what moves am I going to play in the game next? That's the way I would really think about it. And then take advantage of your organizational nervous system — a state of being calm, cool, and collected, and make better choices because of that. Because you can make better, more imaginative and more creative choices in those moments than when you're up with your back against the wall, and you're more in that survival mode. Those decisions are often not the ones that are actually going to help you get to the next level. And so when you're in this state, you have a little bit more luxury in time and space to think big, to think creatively, to rethink, to be introspective, to do deeper listening. Now, you don't want to go so far down that path that you stall out, but you get to make decisions from a different point of view, which I think is a really cool opportunity. So I would take advantage of it.

Jonathan Hicken [00:31:35]: Well — thank you for coaching me through this. What I'm taking away is, for all of us in this position: there's an element of being true to yourself, recognizing what got you here, being humble that it might not be the same thing that gets you to the next place — but trusting in yourself and in your team, because you wouldn't be here, unless there was something good there. I think taking the time to appreciate, but also to reflect and to plan — that's a luxury. We don't always have to take advantage of that. And then also own your wins — obviously in a respectful way, of the ecosystem and other contributors — but own the wins, and don't be afraid to tell funders about them. Yeah.

Eric Ressler [00:32:25]: I think that's great advice. And I hope that everyone who's listening gets a chance to be in that state, because I know when I've been in that state, it just feels really good. And then it leads to just more goodness.

Jonathan Hicken [00:32:35]: Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for helping me think through this, Eric.

Eric Ressler [00:32:40]: If you enjoyed today's video, please be sure to hit like and subscribe, or even leave us a comment. It really helps. Thank you — and thank you for all that you do for your cause, and for being part of the movement to move humanity and the planet forward.