How to Get Your Social Impact Flywheel Turning

Do you ever feel like you’re just STUCK?

Like no matter what you try or how hard you work you just can’t seem to get traction?

We’ve all been there before, and it’s NOT a fun space to be in. 

Here’s the thing: there are going to be sticking points in your social impact journey. That’s pretty much guaranteed. 

What worked on day 1 — or year 1 —  won’t necessarily work for year 3, or year 5. 

What worked when you were brand new and had a $500k annual operating budget won’t work to get you from $5m/yr to $50m/yr.

But there’s a powerful way to overcome these sticking points: Learn to build a social impact flywheel.

A flywheel takes some initial effort to start and spin up, but then it builds momentum and continues to propel your work forward with minimal effort once it’s going. 

You can’t just build one big impact flywheel. You need to build a bunch of them that all work together. 

Jonathan and Eric go into this in detail in our latest episode of Designing Tomorrow. If you’re feeling stuck right now, you don’t want to miss this one.

Episode Highlights 

• [01:11] - Flywheel concept from Good to Great and its relevance to social impact
• [05:27] - Positive feedback loops and their application in social impact organizations
• [06:16] - Creating positive feedback loops and examples of effective stakeholder engagement
• [09:38] - Importance of showing the impact of financial contributions
• [12:05] - Providing immediate feedback for donors and participants
• [14:06] - Immediate feedback to help maintain donor and participant engagement
• [20:21] - The idea of multi-threaded value to enhance retention and momentum

Quotes

• "One of my favorite concepts in this book, Good to Great, is this idea of a flywheel. Now a flywheel in the real world is like one of those spinny toys at a playground. The one where the kids all grab on to it, and one of the parents spins that thing as fast as they can." - Jonathan Hicken [02:13]
• "I think the idea and the concept of a flywheel is very alluring, right? Because it's like, okay, if we can get this flywheel built and we do all this effort at some point it starts to build its own momentum and then we can, you know, reduce the effort." - Eric Ressler [03:25]
• "There is an ability to build this flywheel. Like this is a real thing. This is not a myth, a mythological false promise." - Eric Ressler [05:11]
• "The organization I run, we have a physical space that the public comes through and I wonder, to what degree showing those people who are coming into our space the impact of even the admission ticket that they bought, what impact is that $12 having on the community where the center exists?" -Jonathan Hicken [09:38]
• "One of the mistakes that we make most commonly, and I think one that if we correct it would get that positive feedback loop going, get that flywheel turning is to make this feedback more immediate." - Jonathan Hicken [14:06]
• "Some of the best organizations are not afraid to tell stories immediately like, ‘Hey, thank you for your contribution. Because of people like you and your support, we're able to help people like this achieve these outcomes.’" - Eric Ressler [15:48]
• "I think the idea of immediacy is one that we under index on in the social impact space. And you're probably, you know, leading to donor churn and customer churn. Because if you have to wait a year for the annual report to come out to know that your purchase or your donation made a meaningful impact, that is probably too long." - Eric Ressler [19:34]
• "Eliminating single threaded value... Someone that's interacting with your organization may be receiving multiple points of value from you at any given point, at any given time." - Jonathan Hicken [20:21]

Resources

• Article - How To Power Up Your Content Strategy When You’re Short on Time and Staff
• Article - How to Increase Supporter and Donor Action Using an Engagement Pyramid
• Article - Nonprofits, Master the 3 Pillars of Digital Engagement for Maximum Social Impact
• Article - How to Build a Next-level Content Strategy
• Good to Great - by James C. Collins  
• AllBirds

Transcript

Jonathan Hicken [00:00]:

Eric, there's this problem I'm trying to solve. At the center, I run right now. And essentially what it boils down to is I'm considering creating a program that would serve both parents and the children that they that they are bringing to our center in unique ways, right where we would have something for the parents and something for the kids.

Jonathan Hicken [00:20]:

We can get into the details of the program another day, but one of the things I've been trying to solve is, how do I make this experience equally valuable and meaningful for the parent and for the kid at the same time, so that when they go home at the end of the day or the next day, they are going to encourage each other to go back to my center, because it was a great experience for both of them.

Jonathan Hicken [00:43]:

The, the, the risk being, if one or the other one is kind of like, I don't want to go back, that probably kills the family momentum to return to our center.

Eric Ressler [00:52]:

It happens fast.

Jonathan Hicken [00:54]:

It happens fast, fast. My almost five year old is already giving me those signals for lots of activities I propose. And so this really got me thinking about this flywheel concept. Now there's this book called Good to Great by Jim Collins, and it's one of my all time favorite business books. And he introduces this idea of a flywheel.

Jonathan Hicken [01:11]:

So today I would love to unpack this concept of a flywheel and see if we can create a foundation, a set of steps for our listeners to get their own social impact. Flywheel. Turning. How does that sound?

Eric Ressler [01:25]:

That sounds awesome. Let's do it.

Jonathan Hicken [01:27]:

Let's get into it.

Eric Ressler [01:33]:

I'm Eric Ressler.

Jonathan Hicken [01:34]:

I'm Jonathan Hicken.

Eric Ressler [01:35]:

And this is Designing Tomorrow.

Jonathan Hicken [01:51]:

One of my all time favorite business books is one called Good to Great by James C Collins. And he goes over a number of concepts that differentiate a business that is destined to succeed versus one that's destined to fail. Lots of wonderful concepts. I recommend everybody take a look at the book, or at least at the summary, because it was very transformational for me.

Jonathan Hicken [02:13]:

One of my favorite concepts in this book, Good to Great, is this idea of a flywheel. Now a flywheel in the real world. As you can almost imagine, it is like one of those spinny toys at a playground. The one on ones where the kids all grab on to it, and one of the parents spins that thing as fast as they can, and the kids are holding on tight.

Jonathan Hicken [02:31]:

If you've ever spun one of those things, you know that it takes a lot of effort initially to get that thing moving, but once it's moving, it just takes these regular, consistent soft taps to keep that wheel spinning. And in the book, Good to Great by James Collins, he talks about how businesses need to adopt a similar mindset of consistent effort, gradual momentum and simple concepts over a long period of time.

Jonathan Hicken [03:04]:

Build that flywheel. And I think the same things can exist in the social impact space. And so I want to figure out how do we get there? How do we get these flywheels turning for the social impact sector? Before I propose some of the ideas I have, I'm curious if this is resonating with you and some of the conversations you're having with your clients.

Eric Ressler [03:25]:

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea and the concept of a flywheel is very alluring, right? Because it's like, okay, if we can get this flywheel built and we do all this effort at some point it starts to build its own momentum and then we can, you know, reduce the effort. It won't be such a big push each time.

Eric Ressler [03:42]:

We're just doing these small pushes. And I think that that can be true. And I think that when we look at, again, the kind of premise of our show here, what is the difference between social impact organizations that thrive and those that fail to get this traction and they can't make a meaningful impact? I think a lot of those organizations just never got to the point where that flywheel was spinning enough, right?

Eric Ressler [04:04]:

They didn't ever get through the really hard parts of being an early stage organization to growing to a slightly later stage organization, to reaching that threshold where there's a certain amount of just momentum. Another example is like if you look at some of the largest companies in the world, tech companies, whatever companies, when you get to a certain size and you have a certain amount of size as an organization, if you're if you're big enough, you have more resiliency just by your size, right?

Eric Ressler [04:33]:

You can take bigger bets and fail and pick yourself back up more easily. You see this all the time in tech companies where they're pivoting and you know, their pivots go wrong and they're pivot again. But like just the sheer just kind of natural force of them keeps them afloat and keeps them moving. At some point in a certain direction.

Eric Ressler [04:50]:

So I think what I've seen building cosmic and what I've seen helping other organizations who maybe are early stage and I've watched them through our work and after our work grow beyond early stage or worked with organizations that are, you know, have a huge legacy. Some of our clients have been around for 150 years, even some of our educational institutional clients.

Eric Ressler [05:11]:

There is an ability to build this flywheel. Like this is a real thing. This is not a mythological false promise, but I think that if you think about it like if we just build the flywheel, then everything will be easy. But that is also not true.

Jonathan Hicken [05:27]:

That's oversimplifying. Yes. And I think that that becomes an impossible thing to chase. But the fundamental concept of this flywheel, right, is like, once you get this thing spinning, it's just small efforts that keep it spinning, you know, daily, it's the daily grind. It's the daily activities that keep it spinning. But I'm like, how do you get to that place to begin with?

Jonathan Hicken [05:50]:

Right. And so I've been playing with this idea of like positive feedback loops where how do we create these positive feedback loops? in our social impact, organizations where one particular stakeholder interacting with us is creating a positive effect for another stakeholder group and vice versa. So it becomes the audience that is essentially itself keeping this flywheel turning.

Jonathan Hicken [06:16]:

So. So the example that I'll bring, the most common example is when we talk about donors seeing the impact of their investment. Right. We want to provide that positive feedback loop for donors or members or whomever, so that they're getting that positive reinforcement, that what they're doing means something and that they may want to do it again. That's the positive feedback loop that we talk about most often, at least in the nonprofit side of things.

Jonathan Hicken [06:41]:

But I'm starting to believe that there are examples of these positive feedback loops between other stakeholder groups, too. Are there any other examples that you can think of that this might apply to?

Eric Ressler [06:52]:

Yeah, I mean, I think from a branding and marketing standpoint, this is also true. There can be some positive feedback loops there. So it's almost like there's these mini flywheels that are powering the larger flywheel. Right. And I think that this is true if we take the example of really elevating your branding and marketing work, there's that initial inertia of a rebrand or like rethinking about your brand strategy or a big website overhaul or rethinking of your social strategy.

Eric Ressler [07:17]:

That is like initial inertia. And it's hard. It's difficult work. It takes a lot of input and, you know, deep thought. And then when you're done, you're not done. But now you're just kind of nurturing that foundation that you've built, right? You're realizing the impact of that early investment that you've made. So I've definitely seen it on the branding and marketing side, but I think, you know, just reflecting on what I've experienced running cosmic and also with, observing, you know, hundreds of different social impact organizations running their teams is that there's like an internal team culture that has its own positive feedback loop to, when done well, right, where there's core

Eric Ressler [07:56]:

values that are driving the work, there's clear delineation of responsibility, there's a shared clarity of purpose. And when these kind of more cultural strategic elements are built properly, that can become a positive feedback loop of getting the right people in the right seats, doing good work, seeing impact, being proud of that, being energized and not burnt out gives your organization resiliency to be able to, you know, afford to pay people what they're worth, give them a living wage and not, you know, fall into the scarcity trap of the nonprofit sector and underpaying people and maybe even, frankly, exploiting them intentionally or unintentionally.

Eric Ressler [08:32]:

So there's all kinds of different examples. I think we could come up with these mini flywheels or small positive feedback loops that are all pushing the overall inertia momentum of the organization in a positive direction.

Jonathan Hicken [08:55]:

The organization I run, we have a physical space that the public comes through and and I and I wonder, to what degree showing those people who are coming into our space the impact of even the admission ticket that they bought. What impact is that $12 having on the community where the center exists? Do they care? And if we started demonstrating that more, would that be a contributor to helping our flywheel start to turn where it's bridging this commerciality and impact divide where it's like anytime there's a transaction, a financial transaction there, we are demonstrating the impact of that transaction in the moment.

Jonathan Hicken [09:38]:

But also I think about the opposite side of that, where the people that are experiencing the impact most intimately are also showing them the contributions of the community that made the impact for them possible? And these are just a couple of examples of ways that I'm playing with bridging the commerciality and impact divide to create this positive feedback loop that might get our flywheel spinning.

Jonathan Hicken [10:05]:

Is this just pie in the sky kind of thinking, or is there something real here?

Eric Ressler [10:09]:

I mean, I think there's definitely something real, especially when you're trying to connect donations or price of admission to impact. It's interesting to me because like, this is one of the most fundamental best practices of social impact organizations, right, is like doing a good job connecting donations or volunteer work or price of admission to the impact. But I just see so many examples where this is not done well.

Eric Ressler [10:34]:

and I don't want to put the blame necessarily on social impact leaders or organizations because it's not necessarily easy to do well. but I do think that there's often a gap between I think, like we sometimes just kind of expect our audience and our community to connect the dots on their own. And no one's doing that basically.

Eric Ressler [10:53]:

Right. No one is sitting there thinking about how their price of admission is going to help cover a living wage for an employee at Marine Discovery Center. they're there for their own kind of personal reasons. And it's not to say that people don't care about supporting organizations. And I do think sometimes people will make those kinds of more subconscious, choices where they're like, you know what?

Eric Ressler [11:14]:

This feels kind of expensive, but I know it's going to a good cause. Right? Or I feel compelled to donate because I believe in the work that they're doing, and I don't need any numbers to back that up. So that is also true. But I do think that some of the best examples of social impact marketing and social impact communications, they do a really good job of telling interesting, compelling stories about how your individual personal contributions have led to meaningful, measurable impact.

Jonathan Hicken [11:42]:

We talk about that a lot in the sector, but we don't talk a lot about the opposite direction, right? So we talk a lot about the transactors understanding the impact of their transaction. But do we show the impactees where that impact came from? Right. And does that matter to getting the flywheel spinning?

Eric Ressler [12:05]:

man, it's a delicate balance because how do you do that in a way that doesn't get into like, a savior syndrome, right? Where it's like we're coming in to save you because you are underserved or you can't do this on your own. Right? And I mean, obviously, this is very context dependent. Are you serving an underserved population?

Eric Ressler [12:24]:

Even that terminology feels kind of icky. Icky to use, right? This is a conversation that is just being broadly held in the space. Right? So I don't know. I mean, I think that if that were done in a way that connected people, right? So let's put a hypothetical together here. So if you connected donors to the people that their donation ultimately went and helped as a way to connect the community, not to make donors feel good about themselves or not to make the, people who have been helped feel like they owe something to the donors if it's done in that kind of like respectful, ethical way, then I think that could be a really powerful way to build community around different stakeholders within your organization. But I think it's just a tricky one.

Jonathan Hicken [13:07]:

It's a tricky one. And I do think in its best version, it really could get that flywheel spinning.

Jonathan Hicken [13:24]:

You know, you brought up some shortcomings in our space of demonstrating our impact to contributors like donors or foundations and telling those stories in an effective way. What I have seen is that people in our sector understand that this is something we have to do. It's not a surprise that we need to demonstrate our impact to the people who support us.

Jonathan Hicken [13:45]:

I think one of the mistakes that we make most commonly, and I think one that if we correct it would get that positive feedback loop going, get that flywheel turning is to make this feedback more immediate. Right? I think it is particularly in the world we live, that we need to show these impacts almost instantly and the moment the transactions are made.

Jonathan Hicken [14:06]:

And that's really that's easier said than done. I think traditionally in our sectors, especially in the nonprofit world, we are accustomed to writing these annual reports and we, you know, at best a quarterly directors update. Right? And yeah, those are great. and I'm not discouraging people from doing those. There's a lot of value in going through that, that process.

Jonathan Hicken [14:26]:

For some of your donors, they may wait an entire year before they're hearing the impact of their contribution in any meaningful way. So one of the things I think is important to get that flywheel turning is the immediacy of the feedback, especially towards the trans actor.

Eric Ressler [14:40]:

Yeah, I love this line of discussion because I think it is so important and I've personally experienced this a lot. I donate to a bunch of different organizations and organizations who are, you know, by many measures like quite successful. And I've been very surprised at the discrepancy between some organizations and others around their impact. Storytelling I've made donations to.

Eric Ressler [15:02]:

And I'm not gonna name any names because I don't like, you know, public shaming anyone. but I've donated some well known organizations and been very surprised just by how lackluster the storytelling in the connection to impact is. And, you know, I donate and then, you know, two weeks later, the very next piece of communication I get from them is like, in the worst case, another appeal for further donation and with no impact, storytelling in between.

Eric Ressler [15:27]:

On the flip side, some of the best organizations are not afraid to tell stories immediately like, hey, thank you for your contribution. Because of people like you and your support, we're able to help people like this achieve these outcomes. And I get that message immediately. And that's kind of like that reinforcement of like this was a good choice.

Eric Ressler [15:48]:

Like I'm supporting an organization that is making a meaningful difference. They're going to make sure I know that. And that's not the only return on your investment as a donor or a supporter, but it's an important one, right? You want to know, like, hey, this didn't just go into some random bucket, even if it did go into, let's say like, an overhead bucket.

Eric Ressler [16:05]:

Like I'm not suggesting that we need to go to the like 100% program work funded line of messaging, because I think that is long term a bad strategy for the sector too. But I want to know that, like when I dedicate time, energy or money into supporting an organization that is doing something like this is so basic, right?

Eric Ressler [16:25]:

But so many organizations don't get this part right. Or if they are getting it kind of right, there's always room for improvement. Now, on the social enterprise side, if we kind of go more to like a customer, there's a couple different ways that you get a return on your investment in like a positive feedback loop, right? So one of the ways is let's just take an example of supporting like an, an ethical, shoe company.

Eric Ressler [16:47]:

Let's take Allbirds, for example. They're actually one of my favorite social enterprises. Why do I support Allbirds? I support Allbirds because they make shoes that are comfortable. They make shoes that last a long time. They make shoes that are built out of sustainable materials, and they are, like, authentically inventing better ways to make sustainable shoes that do not add to the landfill and do not have a negative impact on our climate.

Eric Ressler [17:09]:

And Allbirds does a really good job of telling me how they are moving that mission forward all the time. And yes, they send a lot of sales emails and marketing emails, too, because they're social enterprises. They need to sell products because that's what powers their mission. But they do that in such a good, immediate way, and they reinforce that belief that like, hey, I feel good about buying these shoes not just because they're comfortable and because they work well, that's kind of a prerequisite, right?

Eric Ressler [17:35]:

If they were sustainable, but they, you know, fell apart right away, are they even sustainable at that point? Right. But because I know that through their storytelling, their constant reinforcing that, like, I've made a good choice by supporting this brand. So I just think there's so many of these little, like, micro feedback cycles that if you start to think about how to create these, they kind of add up to be greater than the sum of their parts.

Jonathan Hicken [17:56]:

And I'd bet that as soon as you buy a pair of shoes from Allbirds, you have an email validating the impact you've made in your inbox moments later. Yes. And so there's that immediacy power you talk a lot about. Even in season one, you talked about competing in the attention economy for the social impact sector. And I think speed and I think immediacy is one of those ways that we're probably falling behind is, is, that instant feedback towards an action that that someone's had taken, whether that's a financial transaction or otherwise?

Jonathan Hicken [18:27]:

Yeah.

Eric Ressler [18:27]:

And I mean, absolutely. And it doesn't need to be super sophisticated, right? I mean, I can't tell you how many organizations don't even send a thank you email after receiving a donation, donation, or even just a confirmation email, like, did that even work? I don't know, so that's like, you know, bottom, you know, like the lowest bar to hit and you can get more sophisticated than that, but like, even just a simple like, because of people like you, we are able to achieve results like this.

Eric Ressler [18:55]:

That should be very doable. If you can't do that, you have much bigger problems. because maybe. Are you even making an impact now? Can you get more sophisticated than that and start to do some calculations around, like every dollar you donate leads to this exact kind of impact? That's great. Right? Like people love that. That really super tangible, immediate understanding is great.

Eric Ressler [19:15]:

There's a little bit more work to get that going and it takes a little bit more historical data to be able to tell those kinds of stories, to include that kind of statistical data accurately and authentically. But I think these are the kind of ideas that you should be exploring. And I think the idea of immediacy is one that we under index on in the social impact space.

Eric Ressler [19:34]:

And you're probably, you know, leading to donor churn and customer churn. Because if you have to wait a year for the annual report to come out to know that your purchase or your donation made a meaningful impact, that is probably too long.

Jonathan Hicken [19:55]:

I'm glad you brought up donor churn or participant churn, because that leads me into the third idea I want to bring forward as it relates to getting your flywheel spinning and keeping it spinning, which is this idea of eliminating single threaded value. So what do I mean by that? Someone that's interacting with your organization may be receiving multiple points of value from you at any given point, at any given time.

Jonathan Hicken [20:21]:

Or I would also extend that to say that people in their immediate circles might be receiving value as well. A single threaded value situation is one where there's a single individual that gets one kind of value from your organization. Nobody else in their immediate circle is getting value. It's just them. And there's one way they're getting value that is a recipe for churn.

Jonathan Hicken [20:44]:

If there's one thread that if it's snapped, you're going to lose that individual and they're no longer going to be contributing to the momentum of your flywheel. So I like to think about this idea of multi-threaded value situations where and to give you the go back to the example I lead with, where parents and a kid are both coming in and they're both getting value at the same time in the same place.

Jonathan Hicken [21:06]:

That's a dual threaded value scenario we've set up where if one gets snapped, it makes it harder to retain the participation of that family, but it's not impossible to get them back in some way. So I encourage people to think about things like, are the people interacting with my organization connected by a single thread, or are there multiple threads here?

Jonathan Hicken [21:27]:

I'd love to hear what's going through your head when I talk about this concept.

Eric Ressler [21:29]:

Yeah. It's interesting. I've never really I haven't used that terminology or heard that terminology before, but I think to me this is about deepening relationships with your community of supporters, right? So people will come in with initial touchpoints with your brand and start to build a relationship for one reason. But if you do a good job as a social impact organization, that relationship will deepen and nurture over time.

Eric Ressler [21:55]:

And they may have come in initially because they support your mission and, you know, they feel compelled and generous and they want to, you know, do a one time donation. But then they start to see, wow, like, this organization is really making an impact, making a difference. They're credible. I feel good about supporting them. You know what? I'm going to become a monthly donor or I'm going to join the Giving Circle and, you know, come in a bigger amount if I can afford to.

Eric Ressler [22:20]:

And that's maybe what began for them. But as they deepen their relationship with your organization now, they have a sense of identity associated with your brand and a sense of community associated with your brand in your organization. And that is not just another thread, but I think a stronger thread than just a thread of just pure, you know, altruism and generosity.

Eric Ressler [22:40]:

And these can work together again. So I like the idea of thinking about how we can create multiple threads of connection and support and relationship with our different stakeholders for our brand? Because as the world changes and as situations change, if you're relying just on one and it could snap or snip, to your point, then you start to churn and lose people.

Jonathan Hicken [23:00]:

That's right. And you know, we talk about deepening relationships in the sector a lot. And I think what we're doing here is we're describing what that really means. Yeah. What does it mean to build a deeper relationship, offering different kinds of value, offering value to other people in their immediate world and their families or their friends or their colleagues or whomever, and making sure that every individual that we engage with, we have a plan, or we have a journey set out to make sure that they're finding multiple points of value in interacting with us.

Jonathan Hicken [23:28]:

That could be transactional. It could be emotional, it can be a number of different things. But as soon as we have multiple threads, to an individual, the more likely that they are to, you know, stick with us for the long haul. So thanks for helping me think through this. Right? This, this, this idea of getting a flywheel spinning.

Jonathan Hicken [23:44]:

And how do you actually get a flywheel spinning? Just to recap, and then I'd love to hear any takeaways you've had. You know, the flywheel concept from the book Good to Great is really about consistent effort and gradual momentum over a long period of time, applied to a very simple concept, which I think a lot of social impact organizations can do and maybe already do.

Jonathan Hicken [24:07]:

And some of the thoughts we've added today about how to do that in the social impact space is to bridge the commerciality and impact divide with these positive feedback loops to make the feedback immediate or as immediate as possible, and to eliminate these things. Single threaded relationships. What are your takeaways from today?

Eric Ressler [24:26]:

I think it's interesting to me that we ended with this kind of exploration of value creation, and this is one that, you know, we spent a little bit of time talking about in season one. It's something that we think about a lot when working with our clients. I think it's something that we could all spend a little bit more time thinking about, like, how do we create value as organizations?

Eric Ressler [24:46]:

And I think a lot of times that goes, you know, intuitively to the impact, right, the impacts that we're creating. And like, of course, that should be front and center in your thinking, but there's a lot of other ways you can create value as an organization that might not feel as intuitive. And I definitely recommend that any listeners to the show, any social impact leaders think about, like, what are the ways that we actually can create value, and how are we uniquely positioned to create value for our different stakeholders.

Eric Ressler [25:13]:

And that can really help guide and drive some of your decision making. And where you invest your time and energy.

Jonathan Hicken [25:19]:

Cheers to that. Well, thanks for playing with me in this playground today, Eric. That was a fun one. I think that'll do it for today.

Eric Ressler [25:25]:

Awesome. Thanks, Jonathan.

Eric Ressler [25:30]:

This has been Designing Tomorrow. Thanks for joining me. I'm your host, Eric Ressler. If you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to take a minute to subscribe and leave a rating. And if you think a friend or colleague of yours might also enjoy it, go ahead and send them a link to watch or listen. Thank you. Also, be sure to check out our show notes where you'll find relevant links and resources to everything we mentioned in today's episode and more.

Eric Ressler [25:52]:

We love hearing feedback from our community, so please email us with your questions or comments, including topics you like us to cover in future episodes. At podcast@designbycosmic.com. You can also find free articles, videos, podcasts and other resources at our website designbycosmic.com. Just click the insights tab when you get there. Thank you for all that you do for your cause, and for being part of the movement to move humanity and the planet forward.