Why Your Team Is Losing Motivation—and How to Stop It.

How do you keep your team energized, engaged, and aligned—especially in the demanding world of social impact? Passion and purpose are key, but they’re not enough on their own. In this episode, Eric and Jonathan unpack the essential elements of team motivation, exploring why some teams thrive while others stall, and revealing the missing ingredient in traditional approaches to workplace fulfillment. Plus, hear how strategies like impact storytelling, feedback systems, and even gym breaks can transform your culture and keep burnout at bay. Ready to inspire your team? Let’s get into it.

Episode Highlights:

[00:00] Opening Thoughts

• Why team motivation is essential in any organization.
• The unique challenges and opportunities for social impact leaders.

[03:41] Breaking Down Team Motivation

• The mysterious differences between highly motivated teams and struggling ones.
• The concept of Ikigai (personal fulfillment at work): What’s missing?

[06:16] Adding Balance to the Equation

• The importance of nurturing life outside of work to sustain motivation.
• How burnout is more than just a workload issue—it’s a balance issue.

[08:06] Meaning and Impact: Telling Your Story

• Why sharing external success stories with your team matters.
• Jonathan’s new strategy: tasking a team member with collecting 30 impact stories a year.

[12:05] Individual Roles Matter

• Reflecting the importance of individual contributions to the mission.
• How to build motivation by recognizing the unique value of every team member.

[17:48] Compensation: A Foundational Factor

• A quick reminder: pay matters, and it’s a crucial piece of the puzzle.

[18:06] Passion Plans: A New Idea for Leaders

• Jonathan’s concept of “passion plans” to help employees deepen their connection to the work.
• Why passion isn’t fixed—it’s a resource that needs nurturing.

[24:33] Can You Nurture Other Parts of Your Life?

• How balance and personal growth amplify professional motivation.
• Jonathan’s experiment: blocking time for exercise and modeling balance for his team.

[30:32] Leadership’s Role in Motivation

• Motivation is personal: How leaders can uncover individual drivers.
• Why showing up as your best self is contagious for your team.

[34:03] Closing Reflections

• Don’t assume your team will be motivated just because the work matters.
• Building and sustaining motivation requires intentional effort and culture.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Hicken [05:45]
  “I think there’s a fifth bubble missing from the equation for personal fulfillment at work: Can I nurture other parts of myself while I’m doing this work?”
• Eric Ressler [06:40]
  “If that balance isn’t true, none of the other things matter.”
• Eric Ressler [12:53]
  “It’s not just that the work your organization does matters—your specific role within it matters. Reflecting that back to your team can make a huge difference.”
• Jonathan Hicken [24:35]
  “Taking time for myself to nurture my physical health has been an absolute game-changer—and it’s actually accelerated my ability to find motivation at work.”
• Eric Ressler [30:32]
  “There is no formula for motivation that is the same for everyone. Leaders need to get curious about what motivates each individual human on their team.”

Resources:

• Ikigai Diagram
• Article - Unexpected Ways a Rebrand Can Supercharge Your Team Culture
• Article - Your Theory of Change isn't finished until your Grandma can understand it.
• Article - 8 Ways To Make Your Nonprofit Storytelling Stand Out
• Article - How to use Crowdsourcing to Fuel Your Nonprofit's Digital Content Strategy
• Podcast - Why Most Activation Plans Fail and How to Fix Yours.
• Article - The Benefits of a 4 Day Work Week For Social Impact Organizations

Transcript:

Jonathan Hicken [00:00]:

How do you motivate your team? I think in the social impact sector, we actually have some other variables to think

Eric Ressler [00:05]:

About when it comes to this question. There's no one way to do it, right? Why is this particular team so jelled, so aligned, so energized, and this other team that seems like they should be, they're just not there.

Jonathan Hicken [00:20]:

I actually think that there's a fifth bubble missing from this equation for deep personal fulfillments and

Eric Ressler [00:27]:

Work. You have such a clarity of purpose and a clear understanding of why this work matters. And you can often make the mistake of assuming everyone else must also see it the same way that I do because it is so self-evident that my cause matters. I haven't thought about it as much in terms of how that affects how you do storytelling for your internal team, but I think it's probably equally important. 

Jonathan Hicken [00:58]:

Eric, today we're going to talk about something that any organizational leader, whether it's social impact, doesn't matter. If you work in a business and you're a leader, you're thinking about it and that is how do you motivate your team? But I think in the social impact sector, we actually have some other variables to think about when it comes to this question than some of our counterparts in the for-profit space. So I'm really excited to dig into this with you as a fellow owner and leader of your own organization, but also because you see so many leaders at work, so many teams, and I want to know about what you're seeing.

Eric Ressler [01:36]:

Yeah, I got thoughts on this one. So let's do it.

Jonathan Hicken [01:39]:

Let's get into it. Look, we're not breaking any ground when we say having a motivated engaged team is going to produce better outcomes, surprise. That's how this works. And there's lots of literature in the business world and pretty much any professional world about how to do this. And I think some of the themes that come up frequently are things like, do you get along with your boss? Do you feel like you are valued? Are you compensated properly? Do you feel like there's room for growth? These are things that come up in any organization, but in the social impact space, I think there's a couple others that we need to be tracking.

Eric Ressler [02:18]:

I agree. I mean, I think there's an extra layer there that I think doesn't necessarily exist in other sectors.

Jonathan Hicken [02:25]:

What do you see when you talk to the dozens of organizations in the social impact space, what are some of the factors that jump out to you as unique to motivating a team?

Eric Ressler [02:36]:

I think the thing that's interesting, just reflecting on all the different organizations that we've worked with over the years and how I've thought about motivation for my team over the years is that there's no one way to do it right. And I honestly, I sometimes think deeply about this because I'm like, why is this particular team so jelled, so aligned, so energized and this other team that seems like they should be, they're just not there. Everything, you can feel it. You can feel the lack of enthusiasm, even though I can also feel the deep passion and care and purpose and mission. And I think there's a lot of different reasons why a team can be motivated or not. And I think sometimes it might not even have anything to do with the mission or the impact of the organization. It could be more interpersonal, it could be even just straight up personal in certain cases for certain individuals. But yeah, I mean we could go into depth on this. I'm excited to see some of your ideas and then we can riff on it. Let's go. 

Jonathan Hicken [03:41]:

So I obviously think about this a lot too because managing my own team and motivation plays into the quality of work we're able to deliver, especially since it's such a hands-on human to human service that we offer. But I can't help but come back to this concept called Ikigai, and I believe it comes from Japan, but it's essentially like a four ingredient recipe to personal fulfillment in a career. So there's four points that this theory pos, I actually think there's a fifth one that's missing.

Eric Ressler [04:17]:

I could see a blurry version of the diagram in my brain. I was just looking at this the other day, but I am just going from memory. So you start first and I'll see if I can fill in the fifth.

Jonathan Hicken [04:26]:

Yeah, Google it. It's spelled I-K-I-G-A-I. Ikigai. And it's a Venn diagram. It's not rocket science, but there are four overlapping circles in this diagram. And it is the work something that you're good at? Is it something that you're passionate about? Is it something that the world needs and is it something that you can earn a living doing? I think that those four are really close to what it takes for most people to be motivated and engaged in their

Eric Ressler [04:59]:

Work. I agree. I'm kind of cracking a smile here because I feel like two of those should be really easy in the social impact space. One of them is something you have control over, and the fourth being, can you make a living is probably the most difficult one to achieve in the social impact.

Jonathan Hicken [05:16]:

Break that down. Which ones do you have control over? Which ones are easy? And you've mentioned now the compensation you might not have control over.

Eric Ressler [05:24]:

So the two that I think are easy, if you're working for a truly authentic social impact or mission-driven organization is something that the world needs and something that you're passionate about. I think if you're in this space, both of those have to be a hell yes or you're not in the space.

Jonathan Hicken [05:39]:

And I think a lot of people in our work get into this kind of work because of those two factors.

Eric Ressler [05:44]:

Agree.

Jonathan Hicken [05:45]:

And in fact, there are people who get into the work for those two factors at the sacrifice of things like my own compensation or at the sacrifice of things I'm good at because they're passionate about it and because they believe the world needs it. I actually think that there's a fifth bubble missing from this equation for deep personal fulfillment and work. And it's can I nurture other parts of my myself while I'm doing this work?

Eric Ressler [06:16]:

Oh, so can I do this work and have it be in balance with other important things in my life outside of work?

Jonathan Hicken [06:23]:

Correct.

Eric Ressler [06:24]:

Sign me up

Jonathan Hicken [06:24]:

For that bubble. Yeah, I mean whether for you it's health or fitness or family or play or a hobby or whatever it might be, I think that everybody in order to be fully healthy and motivated in their work needs space in their life to do those things

Eric Ressler [06:40]:

Hard agree. And I almost feel like that if that's not true, none of the other things matter.

Jonathan Hicken [06:48]:

And I think that's exactly right. And I think that this is one of the major challenges in social impact work and the kinds of people who typically sign up for this kind of work. It's a really tough one to work in and balance with those other four factors. So I have some ideas about how to work, basically how to start implementing all five of these factors. If you are running a team in the social impact space, I have some ideas about how you might start to make the work meaningful and make sure that there's passion at the individual level and at the team level.

Eric Ressler [07:23]:

Let's hear

Jonathan Hicken [07:23]:

It. So when it comes to is the work meaningful or is it something that the world needs, is this meaningful to the world? I think a really good way to do it. Let's think about our teams, right? Okay. I'm trying to motivate a team to convince them that the world needs this thing. How do I do that? How do I make sure the team is receiving the same level of motivation that you and I talk a lot about sharing with the world, sharing with our audiences, and I think we basically need to do the same thing for our own teams that we're doing when we're communicating with our audience.

Eric Ressler [08:06]:

Yeah, I think this is really interesting to think about this from the team motivation perspective because I am often thinking deeply about this from a marketing and communications perspective because I feel like this is one of the most important ingredients to really nail in your storytelling, which is to make a case for support for your organization. And I think it's one that people often assume is self-evident, but often is not, especially if you're a founder or an executive director or someone in the executive leadership team, you have such a clarity of purpose and a clear understanding of why this work matters or you wouldn't be doing it in 99 out of a hundred cases. And you can often make the mistake of assuming everyone else must also see it the same way I do because it is so self-evident that my cause matters. And so from a communications perspective, we spend a lot of time with our clients helping them figure out how to translate that passion and that understanding in a way that resonates with people who don't have the same amount of experience or background or understanding of the importance of the cause and the mission.

[09:16]:

I haven't thought about it as much in terms of how that affects how you do storytelling for your internal team, but I think it's probably equally important.

Jonathan Hicken [09:23]:

And I think a really easy place to start is to simply start sharing the things that you're sharing externally, share them internally. And I think we actually start, I actually started doing this recently and based partly in motivated by the conversations we're having here in Designing Tomorrow, I put a goal, I put a number goal to my team and I assigned an owner to that goal. And that person's job is to go collect 30 impact stories this fiscal year.

Eric Ressler [09:51]:

Nice.

Jonathan Hicken [09:52]:

And I'm holding that person accountable to collecting those stories in different forms, written in video, et cetera. And so there's an ownership to it, but that person is coming to all of our, whenever we have an all hands meeting and is reporting out on those things and is sharing those stories. And in doing so I can see the team lighting up and just this constant reminder of why we're doing what we're doing. And by putting an owner on it and by putting a number on it and by repeating it frequently within my own team, I'm feeling like we are making progress in terms of the, is this work meaningful? Are we having an impact and doing that within our own team.

Eric Ressler [10:32]:

Yeah, I love that. It reminds me of a couple of different things. One, I just love to hear that you're tasking someone to collect 30 impact stories because oftentimes when we're working with clients, we are preaching the importance of these impact stories and we're asking them to gather them, and it becomes clear to me that this is not a muscle that they've built, and I think it's a really important muscle to build within an organization. So kudos on doing that. Secondly, it reminds me of as I've just been reflecting on what you're saying, what are some of the things that motivate my team and even myself the most? And one of the simple silly things is we have a WINS channel in our internal messaging app where people can just share small or large wins, and often the smallest wins are the ones that are the most motivating. Something as simple as, I just got out of a meeting with a client and this is a direct quote from them, and it's something that's just like they're praising one team member even or one part of our project. And it's those little things that just give you that it's not just a dopamine hit, it's proof that your work is having an impact even in a small way, but an inarguable way. And I think that that is just, it can make a horrible day become an awesome day.

Jonathan Hicken [11:50]:

I think the other piece of this is that we want every individual's own work to also feel meaningful. So we need to reflect the impact of the organization, which is what we're talking about, these impact stories.

[12:05]:

But we also need to reflect the importance of individual roles within the organization. So another thing I like to do is I like to post articles from other thought leaders in the space that reinforce the importance of certain jobs. So just this week in our internal messaging app, I posted an article from a thought leader in the museum space about the importance of front of house staff at a museum or a zoo, and the research that suggests that the impact those people have on a visitor's experience throughout the course of the day, literally someone in the front of the house can make or break a visitor's experience no matter what's inside. Oh,

Eric Ressler [12:42]:

I believe it.

Jonathan Hicken [12:43]:

And so I just shared that to be like your work matters. You matter, and you are creating impact by being phenomenal human to human ambassadors

Eric Ressler [12:53]:

And not just the work of the Seymour Center matters at large, but your specific role matters at the Seymour Center. That's right. I think that makes perfect sense.

Jonathan Hicken [13:01]:

And it only goes so far for a CEO or an executive director to just go and high five. We do that too. That's important too.

Eric Ressler [13:08]:

It is.

Jonathan Hicken [13:09]:

To say it, but when you can show it with a third party, I think that also carries a lot of weight. Second thing, am I good at it? That's the second piece. Am I actually capable of this? How do you bring that feeling about within an organization as a motivational tool? And I think it's a matter of how you are delivering feedback to your team about where they stand at any given time. Are they excelling or are they struggling? And if so, how? And where we talked about this in season two, an idea for how to be delivering more regular feedback.

Jonathan Hicken [13:54]:

I'm a proponent of ditching annual reviews and getting into a more regular feedback system. And I think that's important for motivation. I want everybody on my team to know, am I doing a good job almost down to the daily level? Did I do a good job today? And I want them to have a really clear sense of if the answer's yes or no, and to not be afraid if the answer's no. And to be able to feel free to talk about that with me or with their supervisor.

Eric Ressler [14:23]:

Yeah, I think this is an important one. And I think a term that comes to mind for me that's almost become a little lost, its meaning a bit or been overused, but I think it's still worth bringing up, is this idea of imposter syndrome that you think about it. I think a lot of executives and leaders think about this, but I think it can apply at any level within an organization. And I think that validation is more important for some people than others. Some people don't need it as much as others. Some people really need that validation and they don't have a lot of ability to have self-confidence around the work that they're doing. And I'm not here to judge either approach or either propensity. I think that the way that I think about this with my team is developing a growth mindset and an ability and the support needed to help our team members develop their craft to get better at whatever their role is through simple things like even riffing with someone else on your team who's got a similar position.

[15:29]:

So we have our designers, for example, we'll share inspiration with one another. We'll workshop things, we'll have a monthly just kind of design meta meeting to just keep the creative juices flowing outside of project work as just a small example. But I think I do really try to, and I could certainly be better about this, and I'm curious to hear if you have ideas on this, acknowledge to take the time to stop and acknowledge when someone has really stepped up and made a difference or grown in some way and to do that publicly. And I think that there's probably some mixed opinions about that, but I believe strongly in it. I think that doing that one-on-one can also be effective, but I really think that putting those wins and in showcasing when people have stepped up or have reached some kind of growth milestone and doing that for the entire team fosters a culture of celebrating each other's wins and supporting one another and mitigates the risk of unhealthy internal competition.

Jonathan Hicken [16:34]:

I agree with you. And the only caveat I would say is I would recommend having a conversation with the person you want to praise first and make sure that they're comfortable with being praised publicly. Some people, I've learned the hard way, actually don't really want that spotlight. I feel kind of uncomfortable with it, and it can create some awkwardness. So I like to ask someone, I usually be like, Hey, you crushed it. I want tell the team about it. Are you good with that? Can I do that? And more often than not, the answer is yes, but there are some people who are like, you know what? I prefer to just keep doing my job.

Eric Ressler [17:10]:

That makes sense. And I think it also depends on how are you celebrating someone?

Jonathan Hicken [17:14]:

Yeah.

Eric Ressler [17:14]:

Are you putting them on the front desk in front of 30 people in real life or are you dropping a little note in a messaging app? Yeah, but even still, I think that's a good point. Yeah.

Jonathan Hicken [17:29]:

So the third is can I make a living doing this? I'm not going to spend a ton of time on this one. We have an episode in season three about this already, about talking about pay. I just think you need to look at your pay structures and make sure that you're paying people adequately and competitively. That's an important piece of this whole puzzle.

Eric Ressler [17:48]:

Yeah.

Jonathan Hicken [17:49]:

So moving on to the third, am I passionate about it? Is this a passion thing for me in the social impact space? There's a good chance the answer's yes should be, but I had this crazy idea, actually, I want to run by you. I have not tried this before,

Jonathan Hicken [18:06]:

In preparing for this episode, I had an idea and I was like, in work, we often talk about performance improvement plans or growth plans or professional development plans. I was like, is there a version of this called a passion plan?

[18:23]:

Can we develop little journeys, little pathways for people on our teams to explore and energize their passion for this work? And what does that look like? And I think everybody's source of passion comes from different places. And I kind of want to try this and report back to you all how this goes, but I imagine there's some people on my team who really love the theory of science communication. There are some people who really love the policy side. There's some people who really love the youth education side, and I kind of want to have a conversation with 'em and be like, I want to help you deepen your passion and your love for this. How can we do that together?

Eric Ressler [19:09]:

I think that's fascinating. I think it's worth trying. Please do and please report back. The other thing I was just reflecting on as you were saying that is I think there's this kind of assumption that by default, if you're going to work in a social impact organization, that of course it's going to be something you're passionate about. And I think that's probably true, but I think it's probably worth examining that a little bit more closely. And even reflecting on my own journey running cosmic, I'm really passionate about design. I'm really passionate about social impact and the intersection of design and social impact, but I don't always have passion for my work. And I think that's because passion requires energy, right? It's not just a static thing that you either have or you don't need to be able to nurture and sustain that passion and to feed it.

[20:00]:

And if your day-to-day work isn't sustainable or isn't supporting that passion, then the passion can kind of die out over time. I think this is a common thing that actually happens with creative professionals where you get in and maybe even this Venn diagram can potentially even lead people astray where you love, you have a passion for a cause or a passion for creativity in one way. And you're like, I want to make a living doing this. I care so much about it, and I think if I could do this for a living, my life would be perfect. And I just don't think that's necessarily true. I don't think it's true by default, at least I think that it is possible, but I think it requires more than just being able to make living doing something you're passionate about. I think about being a professional musician, and I have a deep music background and had a path to becoming a professional musician at a young age, and for a variety of reasons chose not to do that. I don't do anything professional with music today, really. But because of that, it gets to just be a passion project. And as soon as you have to make a living doing it, I sometimes wonder, can it still be something you're as passionate about? Because you, by necessity, need to also treat it like a business.

Jonathan Hicken [21:20]:

The weight of what you've just shared is hitting me hard right now. I don't even know if I have anything to say because it's so true. And I feel that too, right? I feel that. I feel that a lot. And there are days where I'm like, God, I believe in this and this is important and I want to make this excellent, and I cannot submit another expense report for the life of me, whatever the task is. So I think that's heavy and that's hard, and I think it's, but all the more reason to have that conversation with people on your team about where their passion, where their energy comes from. I really want to praise someone who I hired into a marketing role a couple years ago and a few months into it came to me and was like, you know what? I love the ocean. I love dolphins. I love this community. I don't love the work. And it was a really easy kind of offboarding. It was like, okay, this is not a good fit for you. But she brought it to me and she brought this up early, and I was so grateful

[22:28]:

That she was able to identify that for herself. She didn't love the work. She cared about the ocean and she cared about science, but it just wasn't a good fit. And I think that there are a lot of us who hit those moments and either don't have the means or the circumstances to be able to turn down jobs. So we got to kind of fight, keep fighting through it. She didn't. And so she was able to make that choice. But I did think it really reflected what you're talking about.

Eric Ressler [22:55]:

I mean, I think it just ties more deeply into motivation. And I think about this for myself a lot because I am absolutely at my core passionate about the work that we do at Cosmic, largely because we're privileged enough to work with some of the most amazing people in the world, literally. I can say that without pause. And there are still times that I burn out, and it's not really because I don't have the passion, but it's because I don't have the support structure or the right ingredients in my daily, weekly life to be able to support and feed that passion personally. And that's personal work for me. And I have theories and strategies and learnings. I'd be happy to share with listeners about that and maybe we will get into that today a little bit. But I think it's an important thing that you can't assume passion is a fixed thing, even in the social impact space where there's such a clear case to be made, to be passionate about this work.

Jonathan Hicken [23:53]:

I'm going to try out this passion plant thing, and I'm going to bring it back in season four, and well, we're going to dissect how this goes. I do think that there's something about talking to everybody on my team and being like, Hey, I want to help you nurture that passion and find that energy, and we're going to figure out how to do it together. But this brings me to actually what you just brought up brings me to the fifth piece that I want to add to that Ikigai Venn diagram, which is, can I nurture other parts of myself while doing this work? And it's kind of what you were just talking about, and I have felt this too. I felt myself burning out and I made a conscious choice to spend, and this was in the last year. I was like, I'm going to go from 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I'm going to go to the gym.

Jonathan Hicken [24:35]:

Normally I'm at work nine to 10:00 AM but I, it's the only time in my life being a single dad and all the things that I got going on is the only time in my life I can get to the gym reliably. I got to do it. I'm not a 5:00 AM gym person. Sorry folks. I got to sleep. And I did that. And I have been able to nurture that part of my life, my physical health, and it has been an absolute game changer, and it has accelerated my ability to find motivation at work. And it just got me thinking. I was like, that piece has to exist. Can I do this work, hit those four points, and also nurture these other important elements of my life and my identity.

Eric Ressler [25:18]:

I mean, I distinctly remember the dinner we had where we talked about this, and can I get a little credit for

Jonathan Hicken [25:26]:

That? Thank you, Eric. Yes, thank you. Thank you.

Eric Ressler [25:30]:

No, I want to preach. We're going to preach here. We try not to preach, but I think this is different for different people. But I think for me personally, and it sounds like this has also been true for you, the importance of balance in life. And I think very specifically exercise, and I don't want to come across as like if you don't exercise, you can't possibly be balanced. Everyone's got to find their way. But I do think we are physical beings and our modern culture does not support healthy habits around movement and exercise, especially if you're working remotely, especially if you're not getting natural movement in your day-to-day. There's more than one way to do this. This does not mean you must go to the gym or do CrossFit or bike or whatever. But I can share from you personally that if I don't have consistent exercise in my life, my passion meter plummets very quickly.

[26:26]:

And I think I'm maybe more sensitive to this than most people I've learned over the years. I've a lot of friends. I can go weeks, months, even without exercising and be totally happy and normal and motivated. I have days and if I don't get movement in, I start to just burn out and get anxious and depressed. And I say this after coming off of a cold for the last week or so, and I could feel it. I can feel that I need to get the movement in, and now I'm feeling well enough that I'm going to get back into that. But whatever that balance is for you, whether it's exercise or music or community or friendship, having that outlet, that connection, that balancing act against whatever is stressful in your life, I honestly think is the biggest superpower you can have to maintain your passion.

Jonathan Hicken [27:15]:

And I think as leaders, we need to set the example for what that looks like. I think we have to live that. We can't expect to just grind, grind, grind, and expect our teams to nurture these other parts of their lives. There's an example we have to set. I feel proud, and I don't take a hundred percent credit for this, but I'll roll into after my workout and my workout clothes and change in the bathroom and then get to work. But people will see me come in my exercise clothes, and I've started noticing other people on my team coming in to work after a workout and they're in their exercise clothes and they got a workout in before they came in. And again, this isn't just about exercise. The lesson or the reflection I'm sharing is that I have been mindful about creating that space for myself and not hiding it. I'm being very open about my, it's on my calendar publicly as my exercise block, right?

Eric Ressler [28:10]:

You're not guilty about missing the nine to 10. And I think that that works if you also give whatever a similar version of that looks like to your team. It's one thing to, and I think about this a lot. My approach is I take long lunch breaks and I usually go out on a bike ride or hit the gym on my lunch break. I also cannot do the 5:00 AM and with two little kids in the mix, it's basically the only time of the day I can make it happen. And that has an impact on my schedule. Of course, my lunch breaks are usually an hour and a half and pretty strictly an hour and a half, unless there's really a reason I can't do that, and an hour of that is gym or biking at this point in my life, maybe at some point it'll be surfing, whatever the exercise is.

[28:51]:

And that just keeps me so much healthier and more motivated. But I also make sure that the rest of the team has enough flexibility that they can do that too. Or if it's something else, it's not just, it has to be exercised. But we work a four day work week at Cosmics. We have a full Friday a week that everyone has that flex time to recharge, to stay motivated, to live their lives. And I've attracted and maintained and jelled a really, really, really solid team. I think largely because we have that flexibility and stress and socialize, the importance of balance, which is not a very common culture in the startup space or the social impact space, definitely not in the agency space, but I will defend that till the day I die is being the right strategy.

Jonathan Hicken [29:43]:

And just to bring this back to impact and our organization's success, I don't have the statistics at my fingertips, but I'm confident that a balanced, motivated team that's coming to work, charged up and ready to go and not burnt out is going to produce better outcomes for impact. I mean, I don't feel like we need a lot of convincing or numbers to make that statement. So does the world need this work? Am I good at it? Can I make a living doing it? Am I passionate about it? And finally, can I nurture other parts of myself while I do all this work? I think those are the five things, and I think as a leader, you need to be talking about those things with people on your team.

Eric Ressler [30:32]:

Can I add one thing? This is something I've thought about a lot largely in past years. Early on when I didn't feel like the team was as motivated as I wanted them to be in certain cases, I spent a lot of time thinking very deeply about why aren't they motivated in the way that I want them to be or that I am at this time? The big aha for me is that there is no formula for motivation that is the same for everyone. I mean, I think this framework is a really good starting point, but what I finally learned is that I need to get curious as a leader and inquisitive as a leader around what motivates each individual human on my team, because it's very different for different people. And as I've done that over the years, I've learned, oh, this team member really gets motivated by public recognition of growth. This team member really gets motivated by having heads downtime to do their work and feeling accomplished in that way. And it's really, it's different for everyone, but if you pay attention long enough, you can start to see the patterns and start to really understand what motivates people individually.

Jonathan Hicken [31:44]:

I think I absolutely agree, and I see that myself, and I try to think about myself. And I think for anybody who's listening that this is kind a new thing to wrap your heads around, I think the best advice would be to do what Eric just suggested and just figure that out at an individual level and have these individual conversations if you can, and figure out what those motivators are. If this Iki guy, Venn diagram helps you structure your thoughts, great. If not, don't worry. Just go start thinking about that, start thinking about the individual motivators and be mindful to speak to those motivators.

Eric Ressler [32:24]:

I think it's great to hear, and I've been so frankly, authentically so proud of your transition into being so diligent about exercise, especially given the fact that it's been a joint effort of ours as and as colleagues. And I think it is so important that leaders stay motivated and passionate because as a leader, you set the precedent and the culture for the organization and not in a top down hierarchical way, but people consciously or subconsciously look to you to figure out how to act and react in any given situation. What's okay, what's not okay in this organization? And if you show up at your best, your team's going to be way more likely to show up at their best. And if you show up at your worst, that is contagious in a negative way.

Jonathan Hicken [33:14]:

And I have been on both sides of that coin.

Jonathan Hicken [33:17]:

I've shown up at my worst, and that has impacted the team. And now I feel like over the last year, I'm showing up. It was my best. And I feel like that's at least playing some part in the success we've had recently. So at least at the very least, normalizing this idea that it's okay to take time to exercise or whatever you might need to do. Look, I don't think this single podcast episode is going to solve anybody's team motivation problems or this journey of being a human in the workspace, but I do hope that it's something I think about. I hope that every other social impact leader is taking this question as seriously as clearly you and I are, because I really do think it matters in this

Eric Ressler [34:03]:

Work. And I think the big takeaway for me is don't just assume your team should be motivated or will be motivated just because the work matters. Because that's just not what I've seen show up this far.

Jonathan Hicken [34:14]:

It's just not how it works. You're here. Well, thank you, Eric. This was a really great one. Thanks for talking about it with me. 

Eric Ressler [34:19]:

Thanks, Jonathan.